Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Forum Shops

Affiliates



Log in to see the full forum. Guests only see a taster!

Author Topic: Tailpieces and sound  (Read 3947 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Bob

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 879
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Super Combination Combination
Tailpieces and sound
« on: Jun 15, 2003, 04:42:59 PM »
More as an aside to the great debate on fine tuners I'll add this:

Yesterday I changed the chinrest on my main violin - couldn't get on with the 'Strad' pattern and decided to try an old-style Flesch in Rosewood - to match the pegs. Purely for cosmetic reasons I also changed the tailpiece (which was a Wittner and black) to  Pusch rosewood with integral tuners.

Now this isn't the greatest of violins - it is in excellent condition - structural, cosmetically and set-up - but its still a late 19th German trade violin even if one of the best I've seen. I also know that tailpieces can have a large effect on the sound - I wasn't prepared however for the increase in power, resonance and projection that a good wooden tailpiece gave over a (reputable, yet plastic) Wittner. It surprised even me...
 :happy:

Offline alwyswinn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,100

  • Total Badges: 25
    Badges: (View All)
    Apple User Mobile User Tenth year Anniversary
Re:Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #1 on: Jun 15, 2003, 07:57:24 PM »
Had a similiar experience yesterday.  Went to my friendly nieghborhood violin shop to get a set of strings or somethin.  Took my friend along who started looking at buying a fiddle a really old fiddle (100-125 yrs old)  it sounded ok the first time I heard it played the luthier and my friend started talking about and he took it back to move the tail piece in a hope to help the sound.  He came back about five minutes later to show us a hollow plastic tailpiece that had been put on it at some point in time.  The luthier put a ebony tailpiece with one fine tuner on and you couldn't tell you were hearing the same violin.  That violin had been on consignment in that shop for over a year and went home with my friend yesterday.  Had they noticed the tailpiece earlier it would have gone much sooner I think.

Offline Svento

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re:Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #2 on: Jun 16, 2003, 12:03:24 AM »
Now does it affect the sound on an electric instrument too?

I've planned to glue the string holder to the body, like on a guitar, would that affect the sound?

Offline alwyswinn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,100

  • Total Badges: 25
    Badges: (View All)
    Apple User Mobile User Tenth year Anniversary
Re:Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #3 on: Jun 16, 2003, 08:04:20 AM »
If you glue anything to a tailpiece of any violin electric or otherwise it will affect the sound gluing to the boby though probably won't hurt an electric without a soundbox.

Offline Svento

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re:Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #4 on: Jun 16, 2003, 11:15:40 PM »
If you glue anything to a tailpiece of any violin electric or otherwise it will affect the sound gluing to the boby though probably won't hurt an electric without a soundbox.
It will have some kind of soundbox, but the stringholder won't rest on it

Offline alwyswinn

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,100

  • Total Badges: 25
    Badges: (View All)
    Apple User Mobile User Tenth year Anniversary
Re:Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #5 on: Jun 16, 2003, 11:30:53 PM »
shouldn'it hurt you would think ask a luthier though I'm guessing

Offline Svento

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #6 on: Oct 05, 2004, 11:34:44 PM »
I believe the ideal tailpiece would be made from metal. For example brass.

Offline Richard Martin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 633
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #7 on: Oct 06, 2004, 10:12:33 AM »
brass might be a bit heavy svento??? (damn I am back to the weight issue again)
I had a similar experience with changing from a light alloy wittner with integral tuners to an ebony tailpiece - did increase volume and I opted for only a fine tuner on the e - and I was much more pleased than with the wittner - I have a thomastic infeld with integrated tuners on the bridge and havent been brave enough to attempt to change that to a solid wood tailpice but it is niggling away at the back of my mind so in the future....

Offline Brokenstring

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 45
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm lazy and won't edit my profile.

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Tenth year Anniversary Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #8 on: Oct 06, 2004, 03:31:22 PM »
I ordered a metal Thomastik after several people told me it would generate a fuller sound than the wood tailpiece I'm using now. But this thread is causing me to rethink that, and maybe I should just leave well enough alone. What are your thoughts?

BTW, I ordered the tailpiece from Woodwinds and Brasswinds and they sent a Wittner. I called them yesterday, and they are sending the Thomastik and told me to keep the Wittner. I also bought a Coda bow from them and I was quite pleased.

Offline Richard Martin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 633
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #9 on: Oct 06, 2004, 04:31:29 PM »
I prefer the wittner to the thomastik tailpiece - - as for improving the sond?... now that is the difficult question - one I wouldnt feel qualify to answer correctly

Offline natnot

  • Cupboard Dweller
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,497
  • Gender: Female
  • Mini Bree!
    • Natnot's homepage

  • Total Badges: 28
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Linux User Mobile User
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #10 on: Oct 06, 2004, 09:02:29 PM »
I've been toying with the idea of getting a hollowed-out French model ebony tailpiece for my fiddle.  But I can't bring myself to part with the nice carved (but heavy!) one I have on there at the moment (the one I had at FH-UK).  I may go ahead and change it though in the interests of research, until I can afford a nice Bois d'Harmonie tailpiece that is both carved and hollow! :D

Offline Graham Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,477

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Apple User Mobile User Search
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #11 on: Oct 06, 2004, 09:05:32 PM »
I use an old metal Thomastik.

This thread makes me wonder what would happen if I swapped it for a wooden one....

gc

Offline Svento

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #12 on: Oct 06, 2004, 11:08:18 PM »
I had no idea metal tailpieces were commersially manufactured.

Offline Graham Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,477

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Apple User Mobile User Search
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #13 on: Oct 06, 2004, 11:20:02 PM »
I don't know if they still are...

but my old Thomastik is definitely metal

gc

Offline Graham Clark

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 2,477

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Apple User Mobile User Search
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #14 on: Oct 06, 2004, 11:20:27 PM »
I prefer it to the plastic Wittners

gc

Offline Svento

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #15 on: Oct 06, 2004, 11:31:38 PM »
I'm thinking about making a tailpiece from a brass drawer handle that has a cupped shape. It would be screwed into the top.

Offline natnot

  • Cupboard Dweller
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,497
  • Gender: Female
  • Mini Bree!
    • Natnot's homepage

  • Total Badges: 28
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Linux User Mobile User
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #16 on: Oct 07, 2004, 06:48:09 PM »
I had no idea metal tailpieces were commersially manufactured.

They are. Wittner make an aluminium one as well as the plastic one, and Thomastik make only a metal one.

Offline peakfiddler

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,222
  • Gender: Male

  • Total Badges: 25
    Badges: (View All)
    Quick Poster Search Tenth year Anniversary
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #17 on: Oct 07, 2004, 07:49:25 PM »
I fitted a german wooden tailpiece earlier this year, along with a new bridge. There was a marked improvement in tone and volume from my favourite violin. I also raised the string height and reduced the thickness of the bridge.
If you try this, don't forget to make an elastic belt to keep a slight amount of  pressure on the soundpost to prevent it from dropping. I speak from hard learnt experience.

Offline Svento

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1,889

  • Total Badges: 24
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #18 on: Oct 07, 2004, 11:28:13 PM »
Are these metal tailpieces generally made from aluminium?

Offline bryan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Gender: Male
  • Looking Forward

  • Total Badges: 21
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Tenth year Anniversary Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #19 on: Oct 08, 2004, 01:03:15 AM »
I have been debating the same issues. 

I have a ebony with one FT, I am debating PegHeds vs a wooden Puch tailpiece with the 4 integrated tuners. (I'd love the Bois d'Harmonie tailpiece but at $175 us for non-carved tailpiece  :o

in my research on fiddle tuning and the A0, B0 mode stuff and from discussions with Steve P.  my guess is that the change in sound you  are noticing may be caused more by the weight of the tailpiece, no the material itself (wood vs metal)

the way the tuning works is to adjust the weight of the tailpiece until the proper ratio of body resonance frequency to tailpiece frequency is reached to get the desired effect. 

So who knows?  which is it weight or material (or both)? 

bryan


Offline meemtp

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 195

  • Total Badges: 26
    Badges: (View All)
    Windows User Linux User Mobile User
Re: Tailpieces and sound
« Reply #20 on: Oct 08, 2004, 12:16:40 PM »
Personally I think my fiddle sounds better with the Wittner that I replaced my Boxwood hill tailpiece with. At first I wasn't sure, as the tone was rather bright and brittle, but I realized that things probably just had to settle in again after removing all the strings and bridge. It sounds great now, seems to be more responsive as well. If I was rich, I'd love to have gotten one of the carved, hollowed Bois D'Harmonie tailpieces that have been mentioned. I love the look of Boxwood, especially when it gets more honey colored with time. Yum.

 




Get Adobe Flash player


Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum (c) 2016 Mark Knight /
SONiC FUEL
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal