Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?

Forum Shops

Affiliates



If you've forgotten your password or username, email madfiddler (link on the left of page).

Author Topic: Old Greasy Coat...  (Read 10622 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Old Greasy Coat...
« on: Oct 08, 2004, 07:15:41 PM »
I heard a fiddler play this in a tree a few weeks ago. Yep, they wuz a-sittin' in a tree, a fiddler, a guitar picker, and a bajoer. First, it was just a pine tree in the park, but music was coming from it, when I walked around it there was an opening and the three musicians inside in a nice cove inside that shaded them from the sun on a nice day.

They were playing 'Old Greasy Coat'

I don't drink
and I don't smoke
and I don't mess with that greasy coat.

The song was great, I want to learn it. I think it's in a Mel Bay song book but I have yet to find it.

What do these words mean?

Does anyone know anything about this song?

It is a great fiddling piece.

 :D


Offline Ott Lake Rambler

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 133
  • Gender: Male
  • With a fiddle and a paddle

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Super Combination Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #1 on: Oct 08, 2004, 07:31:29 PM »
Bruce Molsky plays a version on one of his CDs, and it's a damn good tune.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #2 on: Oct 08, 2004, 09:38:19 PM »
I'd appreciate any more information on which Bruce Molsky CD as I plan on learining this song and would be glad to buy the CD.

Do they sing words on the CD?

Any more info is appreciated.


Offline Alan Kroeger

  • Senior Moderator
  • Someone with 5 blobs
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,052
  • Gender: Male
  • Global Grinch

  • Total Badges: 32
    Badges: (View All)
    Windows User Level 6 Invisible
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #3 on: Oct 08, 2004, 09:46:50 PM »
Here's something I found doing a search on Old Greasy Coat

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000005YVS/ref=m_art_li_1/002-7616382-3720010?v=glance&s=music


Check out this clip and tell me if it's the same song
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/clipserve/B000005YVS001017/0/002-7616382-3720010

I kind of like the fiddlin style on this old album and might try to get it.
Become a Forum Friend and get DISCOUNTS from our advertisers!
plus extra editing and avatar privileges.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #4 on: Oct 08, 2004, 11:38:21 PM »
Yep, that's the right song. I'll just have to get the recording so I can play it slow and play along with it.

Bruce Molsky's rendition is harmonica, so I like the fiddle version by the Hammond Family a little better to learn from and play along.

I sent an e-mail to Bruce Molsky and here is his nice response:

"Hi Ken,
I just tried the link for 'Old Greasy Coat' on my website and it worked just
fine.  Not sure what that's about.
The tune comes from Edden Hammons of WV and was collected by Louis Chappell
in the 1940's.  The original recording resides in the Chappell Collection.

The words are pretty much nonsense as far I can tell.
Hope that helps.
Best,
Bruce Molsky


I'll have to get up to speed here, as I read in Fiddler Magazine that there was considerable work going into archiving of the early fiddling songs across this land. I'm thinking that that is what the Chappell Collection probably is.

Back to the internet for more looking,

I also thank you both for your input so far, as this give much more insight than I have found on my own.

Thank You,

Ken



Offline Alan Kroeger

  • Senior Moderator
  • Someone with 5 blobs
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,052
  • Gender: Male
  • Global Grinch

  • Total Badges: 32
    Badges: (View All)
    Windows User Level 6 Invisible
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #5 on: Oct 08, 2004, 11:53:15 PM »
Later I saw a connection to Edden Hammons must be the same family? the fiddler is Burt Hammons. Cool stuff
Become a Forum Friend and get DISCOUNTS from our advertisers!
plus extra editing and avatar privileges.

Offline Roger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 676

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #6 on: Oct 09, 2004, 10:18:14 AM »
Bruce Molsky's rendition is harmonica, so I like the fiddle version by the Hammond Family a little better to learn from and play along.

The version I have on Bruce's "Poor Mans Troubles" cd is just fiddle and banjo with the fiddle tuned AEAE. I'ts a fine rendition and I think would be a good one to learn from!

Offline Keeso

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #7 on: Oct 09, 2004, 09:58:37 PM »
Here's a link for some background on that tune.

http://www.ibiblio.org/fiddlers/GRAS_GREEK.htm#GREASY_COAT


I chuckled when I found a discussion on fiddle-L debating whether a "greasy coat" was (or was not) a condom. I don't think so, although it could be one of those "wink-wink" double-entendres where it means what you want to think it means!

I was more surprised about how it might refer to an unwashed (only partially tanned?) fleece, lanolin still attached. I was not aware that in some sort of folk remedy, this might have been used/applied to a person's legs for rheumatism relief. Yuck! I'm not sure this was ever effective unless due to a powerful placebo effect!

I think (if I had to guess), it most likely refers to an unwashed and over-used coat. Folks (especially "down on their luck" former Confederate soldiers) often had to continue to wear their old uniform coats for longer than they would have liked, after the Civil War. This is probably what it refers to, but it's just a guess based on numerous references in old tunes where the singer is peeved about having to endure the indignations of being rather destitute.

I looked through all of my tune books for the notation or tab for this tune. I was going to use my Tabledit program to create tab from either the notation or ABC (if I could find ABC code for it). Just my luck, the only book I don't have is the Mel Bay book (The Phillips Collection of Traditional American Fiddle Tunes Vol 1).

Oh well, as Roger says, it may be just as easy to learn it off of Bruce Molsky's "Poor Man's Troubles," which is a must-have for fans of Southern old-time fiddle.

If you want the book, here's a link to where you can get it from Elderly Instruments (look down at the bottom of the page). I've dealt with Elderly for years and years (and had great service), but you can also get it from other sources, even directly from Mel Bay.

http://www.elderly.com/books/cats/265.2.html
« Last Edit: Oct 09, 2004, 10:05:22 PM by Keeso »

Offline Roger

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 676

  • Total Badges: 27
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Windows User Level 5
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #8 on: Oct 10, 2004, 10:08:39 AM »
I found this midi-file titled Greasy Coat at Hetzlers Fakebook.

http://www.hetzler.homestead.com/files/Greasy_Coat.mid

Offline Keeso

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #9 on: Oct 10, 2004, 11:27:20 AM »
** ABC removed pending incorporation into more condensed, single posting (collection) of old-time tunes **
« Last Edit: Oct 13, 2004, 02:17:27 AM by Keeso »

Offline Alan Kroeger

  • Senior Moderator
  • Someone with 5 blobs
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,052
  • Gender: Male
  • Global Grinch

  • Total Badges: 32
    Badges: (View All)
    Windows User Level 6 Invisible
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #10 on: Oct 10, 2004, 03:21:52 PM »
Great thanks for the ABC file
Become a Forum Friend and get DISCOUNTS from our advertisers!
plus extra editing and avatar privileges.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #11 on: Oct 11, 2004, 07:52:56 PM »
Uh oh, ABC file?

I see four keys between bars. Are these notes to be played? I read standard notation but have never seen cA/D/GA/G | before... Can you tell me what that means?

Thanks. This thread is a treasure of info to me.

(Extra Thanks To All,

Ken)

Offline Alan Kroeger

  • Senior Moderator
  • Someone with 5 blobs
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,052
  • Gender: Male
  • Global Grinch

  • Total Badges: 32
    Badges: (View All)
    Windows User Level 6 Invisible
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #12 on: Oct 11, 2004, 08:16:42 PM »
Here Ken I converted it to a jpeg graphic and a MIDI forr you and anyone else thats interested  .mid file is below the graphic

Become a Forum Friend and get DISCOUNTS from our advertisers!
plus extra editing and avatar privileges.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #13 on: Oct 11, 2004, 10:45:04 PM »
Ye Haw! Now I know why they say Ye Haw!

Thanks Alan Kroeger, I'll print this out and tonight get my fiddle out of the closet and scratch out a tune for my dog and my neighbors to listen to.

Mucho Grande Thanks,

Ken


Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #14 on: Oct 11, 2004, 10:50:51 PM »
Ye Haw! Now I know why they say Ye Haw!

Thanks Alan Kroeger, I'll print this out and tonight get my fiddle out of the closet and scratch out a tune for my dog and my neighbors to listen to.

The only question now is, one of the first posts says that the fiddle is 'scourdetura' or 'detuned' to AEAE on the fiddle strings. This standard notation sheet says 'standard tuning.' I'll bet, with a few whirls at playing this piece, I will see the logic in cranking the tuning to AEAE and playing the song out by ear.   (Fun)

Mucho Grande Thanks,

Ken

Offline Alan Kroeger

  • Senior Moderator
  • Someone with 5 blobs
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,052
  • Gender: Male
  • Global Grinch

  • Total Badges: 32
    Badges: (View All)
    Windows User Level 6 Invisible
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #15 on: Oct 11, 2004, 10:55:11 PM »
Well I never much cared about tunings and haven't found many tunes that aren't possible to play in standard tuning. Most likely I won't bother with the AEAE tuning and just manage with standard tuning.
Become a Forum Friend and get DISCOUNTS from our advertisers!
plus extra editing and avatar privileges.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #16 on: Oct 11, 2004, 11:12:45 PM »
Ye Haw! Now I know why they say Ye Haw!

Thanks Alan Kroeger, I'll print this out and tonight get my fiddle out of the closet and scratch out a tune for my dog and my neighbors to listen to.

The only question now is, one of the first posts says that the fiddle is 'scourdetura' or 'detuned' to AEAE on the fiddle strings. This standard notation sheet says 'standard tuning.' I'll bet, with a few whirls at playing this piece, I will see the logic in cranking the tuning to AEAE and playing the song out by ear.   (Fun)

Mucho Grande Thanks,

Ken

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #17 on: Oct 11, 2004, 11:16:25 PM »
Leave it to a newbie to make multiple posts. The lines have been slow today so I hit the button too many times and they all worked. I don't see a delete feature. Maybe we are stuck with my mistake here. I promise to be much more careful from now on.


Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #18 on: Oct 12, 2004, 04:58:47 PM »
Looks like another software program that I've 'got' to have.

I've studied the Beber mystery sonatas which are 12 Baroque period, back when they used sheep-gut strings, tunes with each using different violin tunings. Some people who play these will get 12 violins ready, correctly tuned, for performance. Because it takes a minute to re-tune. I don't like re-tuning my violin because they hold their tune better if they are kept in one tuning, especially with the cantankerous gut strings. However, re-tuning requires more 'fiddling' and that maybe is where the term fiddling came from when using a violin.

Just a guess.


Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #19 on: Oct 12, 2004, 05:01:37 PM »
Maybe fiddling means you are not playing, but trying to re-tune your violin while others are playing.

Offline Keeso

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 255

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #20 on: Oct 12, 2004, 07:21:50 PM »
I've studied the Beber mystery sonatas which are 12 Baroque period, back when they used sheep-gut strings, tunes with each using different violin tunings. Some people who play these will get 12 violins ready, correctly tuned, for performance. Because it takes a minute to re-tune.

Boy, I'll bet! Maybe even much more than a minute, what with the pitch-stabilization process with gut strings.

I don't like re-tuning my violin because they hold their tune better if they are kept in one tuning, especially with the cantankerous gut strings.

I can imagine ... I've never used gut strings, myself, but while the tone is gorgeous, it is difficult to do any scordatura. I've found that Helicores stabilize pretty much immediately after re-tuning (especially after they've been installed for just a short time), but I've also found that even the synthetic-core strings will stretch for a while after re-tuning. That's why I leave one fiddle with synthetic-core strings in standard tuning, and my other fiddle (with Helicores) in cross-tuning.

Offline Ken Nielsen

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 767

  • Total Badges: 23
    Badges: (View All)
    Tenth year Anniversary Level 5 Super Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #21 on: Oct 12, 2004, 10:06:15 PM »
Also, with gut strings, they are tuned 1/2 step down from 440A, which means that every song gets played only with other instruments that are tuned 1/2 step down. This helps the gut strings relax, they really are too tight when moved up 1/2 step, I've tried 'em like that and it is not recommended.

So, now are you not only playing with strings that are de-tuned, you are playing an another key, so you need to change your keys too, like G would become G# or Ab for playing purposes.

The music for the Beber concertos is written like you would play in normal notation, but the notes coming out of the instrument are different that what is written, if you get what I mean. That doesn't bother me, but it really threw my teacher who has perfect pitch when she tried to play it and she expected different notes to come out that what she was hearing.

Ha Ha, anything for a good laugh I say.

:  )



Offline Mark Cordova

  • Senior Moderator
  • Sr. Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,574
  • Gender: Male
  • I've been drinking downstream from the herd again.

  • Total Badges: 25
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Super Combination Combination
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #22 on: Oct 12, 2004, 10:10:15 PM »
Hiya, Let's move this to the ABC section please.

Offline dreamingmonkey

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Tenth year Anniversary Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #23 on: Nov 18, 2004, 11:05:43 PM »
I'd like to hear this done in standard tuning.  Do you leave the drones and chords out and just play the melody notes?  or do you 'capo' the G and D strings with your index finger?  Or do you just reset the whole tune?  does it still sound greasy? 

sorry I don't know how to quote that far back in the thread but there was discussion about playing it in standard as opposed to cross

thanks

Offline dreamingmonkey

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 33

  • Total Badges: 22
    Badges: (View All)
    Level 5 Tenth year Anniversary Nineth year Anniversary
Re: Old Greasy Coat...
« Reply #24 on: Nov 19, 2004, 03:41:31 AM »
Also, Bruce Molsky's version isn't on a harmonica?!

It's a cross-tuned fiddle.  I went back and listened to it though and it almost sounds like a harmonica  cause its really really dense.  That's the kind of stuff I feel like you would lose if you play it in standard tuning, although of course you could play an entirely different version of the tune I guess or (what I'm wondering in my post) do people compensate for that stuff in standard somehow?

 




Get Adobe Flash player


Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum (c) 2016 Mark Knight /
SONiC FUEL
SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2020, SimplePortal