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Author Topic: Starting a new block of rosin....  (Read 8212 times)

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Offline xania

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Starting a new block of rosin....
« on: Feb 07, 2004, 10:19:58 AM »
I've just had my bow rehaired, and bought a new block of rosin (Pirastro obligato) just.....because.

But, I can't seem to get any on the bow! Ant tricks for getting new rosin started? I haven't had this problem before. ???

Oh, and this has made me think of another thread....

xan

Offline mizlizj

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #1 on: Feb 07, 2004, 08:54:42 PM »
I have the same question as Xan, was just going to post it today! I have a new block of Pirastro and have been scraping it with a knife to a fine powder, but I am having problems with it attaching to my bow.
Any suggestions for a newbie!

Offline Steve_W

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #2 on: Feb 07, 2004, 09:28:24 PM »
Huh, no problems here starting new cakes of rosin, but I've never tried the Pirastro (I use Hill Dark and Colophane 2000); I wonder if it's just a matter of getting an initial load of rosin on the hair to start it out.  I always ask the guy that rehairs my bow to put some powdered rosin on it initially.  He puts a bunch on a cloth then runs the bow through it a few times; that does the trick.  Do you have another block of something else that you can try to see if it's the hair or the rosin? -Steve

Offline Alan Kroeger

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #3 on: Feb 07, 2004, 10:15:41 PM »
You can just take any moderately sharp object and rough up the surface of the cake and that will get it going.

Try a blunt nail file, a butter knife or similar do this no need to cut off fingers here ;D

Oh yeah and you don't need to go crazy cutting the surface just scour it enough to get it a little powdery, once started you never have to do this again.
« Last Edit: Feb 07, 2004, 10:27:29 PM by Alan Kroeger »
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Offline Pilgrum

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #4 on: Feb 07, 2004, 10:41:18 PM »
I agree with Alan, I have heard that thought several times so must be something to it.

Offline xania

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #5 on: Feb 08, 2004, 03:43:17 AM »
Well thank you!

Scraping it and a bit of elbow grease seems to have done the trick. It must be a harder rosin than the ones I've used before.

Now that I've actually manged to get some on the bow, it's quite nice.

xan

Offline Keeso

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #6 on: Feb 08, 2004, 05:09:47 AM »
I've done it using both of the previously mentioned ways. First "powder" method: scraped off some chunks, bashed 'em into powder inside a clean baggie, then rubbed the powder on the bowhair with a small square of clean flannel (not too fuzzy or linty).

Ended up over-doing it a bit, but then wiped some off and played-off the rest of the excess (cleaned the strings half-way through that session).

Cross-hatching the top with a razor blade or pocket knifepocket knife works, too ... followed by enough strokes to get enough on there for a good tone.

Offline vic

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #7 on: Feb 08, 2004, 06:41:42 AM »

you can also sand the rosin with sandpaper to get fine grains.

vic

Offline chifiddler

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #8 on: Feb 08, 2004, 04:48:13 PM »
I have had that trouble sometimes with a freshly rehaired bow. I actually took one bow back and suggested that they put powdered rosin on it first. Other places I had taken it to automatically did it, because it does faciliate your rosining of the bow!

I have been using Piastro Goldflex because it puts off less rosin powder and I like it pretty well after I adjusted to it. If I have some hours of sessioning ahead of me, I use Hill Dark for the increased stickiness.

Offline ThunderFingers

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #9 on: Feb 09, 2004, 06:01:55 PM »
And I just got a new bow from a violin shop, so new, never used, and he used powdered rosin on it, took him a wile to apply it enough to make him satisfied, before he even handed it to me.
So I think that is a good way to rosin the new hairs for the first time..

Offline fidla

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #10 on: Feb 09, 2004, 06:44:21 PM »
In my experience, Tartini rosin doesn't need to be "started" with a knife or sandpaper, it goes right on the stick with no problems!

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #11 on: Mar 30, 2004, 05:53:22 PM »
so much to learn for a newbie....

Offline chifiddler

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #12 on: Mar 30, 2004, 10:27:01 PM »
Yea, have them pre-rosin it before you take it home, it does make it easier to put rosin on yourself!

Offline fidla

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #13 on: Mar 31, 2004, 03:50:21 AM »
Xan obviously you are not using the correct rosin.  Yer a cellist right?  Either way (cello, violin/vla) you need Tartin rosin.  Give me a pm and I'll send you a cake.  pInchas Zukermann has ordered enough cakes for the whole cello section.  Very cool!

Offline Ceilidh

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2004, 05:06:13 AM »
I also sandpaper my rosin before the first using. I had a hard time getting enough on my new bow hair to make a good strong sound, but it's coming bit by bit. I think it takes awhile before each hair is sufficiently coated because I'm still getting a bit of slipperiness here and there...but it's getting better.

2 weeks from now I'll be complaining about TOO much rosin on my bow  ::)  ;D

Offline xania

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2004, 11:55:23 AM »
Xan obviously you are not using the correct rosin.  Yer a cellist right?  Either way (cello, violin/vla) you need Tartin rosin.  Give me a pm and I'll send you a cake.  pInchas Zukermann has ordered enough cakes for the whole cello section.  Very cool!


Whilst I can tune a cello quite well, I actually play the violin!! (or try to, more likely.) ;)

I may be using the wrong type of rosin. Which is the one you like-Tartini?

xan

Offline fidla

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2004, 01:01:07 AM »
Xania, next time try Tartini rosin.  You don't have to "Start" it.  It goes on like buttah!

Offline thilefan

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #17 on: Jun 15, 2004, 10:44:47 PM »
Newbie here!

I just got a new cello, with a new bow, and a new rosin cake. It's Kaplan Art Craft Rosin....is this any good? The person at the music store told me it was the best (haha, somehow I doubt that). I am having the same troubles with it, it just doesn't seem to stay on my bow. I scraped the top with a butter knife, and then I tried it, and it still doesn't appear to be too much different. Any suggestions?  ;D

~Robin

Offline fiddlebabe

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #18 on: Jun 17, 2004, 02:40:57 PM »
Is it best to go for a line or criss-cross in the rosin, or try and wear it down evenly?

My last rosin was criss-cross but my current rosin I'm trying to wear evenly to see if there's any difference.

I once dropped my rosin and it cracked into pieces, I took a lighter and melted all the pieces back together again, but it was never the same and fell apart again. That sounds a bit like Achey-Breaky heart!  :'(

Offline fiddlebabe

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #19 on: Jun 17, 2004, 02:51:12 PM »
I found the other thread on what your rosin looks like and it would appear the Flat Rosin Society have the day. I will continue to aim for flatness but not in my playing.  ::)

I have noticed that I sneeze more while playing. I wonder if there are any adverse health effects from rosin inhalation.

Offline simon

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #20 on: Jun 17, 2004, 02:54:54 PM »
Rosin makes me sneeze sometimes too. There is hypoallergenic rosin available, but I've no idea if it's any good.

Offline Martin

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #21 on: Jun 17, 2004, 03:48:40 PM »
Newbie here!

I just got a new cello, with a new bow, and a new rosin cake. It's Kaplan Art Craft Rosin....is this any good? The person at the music store told me it was the best (haha, somehow I doubt that). I am having the same troubles with it, it just doesn't seem to stay on my bow. I scraped the top with a butter knife, and then I tried it, and it still doesn't appear to be too much different. Any suggestions?  ;D

~Robin

Hi Robin,

Ive got the same stuff for my fiddle. I asked for Hill Dark Rosin, but the assistant said they don't make it anymore and this was the stuff everyone in Ealing (London, UK) uses.

I found once I'd worn the shine off, it's pretty good. I feel it's softer compared to Pirastro Goldflex or Hidersine.

I asked a classical player about how much she uses, and was told you can't use too much rosin. Put on too much, it just comes off quickly anyway (of course this will mess up your strings & dump rosin on the cello).

If it's a brand new bow, it will take several applications from any rosin before the hair is sufficiently coated.

Offline Martin

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #22 on: Jun 17, 2004, 03:52:42 PM »
Rosin makes me sneeze sometimes too. There is hypoallergenic rosin available, but I've no idea if it's any good.

I think you'd still sneeze occasionally, that's not an allergic reaction, but just a reaction to dust going up your nose. Grow more nose hair, young man.

If your rosin causes you to come out in blotches, your veins to stand up, or you feel like ordering an anchovy pizza, then try the hypo-allergenic stuff.

Offline simon

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #23 on: Jun 17, 2004, 04:21:23 PM »
Shortage of nose hair is not one of my problems. I'll spare you any more detail on the subject.

I've got a spray for my hayfever, so next time I rosin my bow I'll try the Beconase in an attempt at being vaguely scientific. Now, where's me white coat?

Offline Richard

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #24 on: Jun 17, 2004, 04:54:26 PM »
anchovy pizza? linked to Rosin. hmmm. Pizza! Hungry.

Don't inhale the dust. Clouds of rosin make me sneeze too. just like if you raise a dust cloud from an old chair.
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Offline Steve_W

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #25 on: Jun 17, 2004, 06:20:37 PM »
Hi Robin,

Ive got the same stuff for my fiddle. I asked for Hill Dark Rosin, but the assistant said they don't make it anymore and this was the stuff everyone in Ealing (London, UK) uses.

No more Hill Dark?  I hope that's not true; it's been my rosin of choice for about 25 years!  Actually I don't think that's correct; I know Hills are not in the business any more but I believe another firm has continued manufacturing their rosin; I found a cake at my local music store to replace the one I dropped and shattered several months ago (and I see that Shar and other online stores still carry it).
 
Speaking of rosin, I was in Ifshin's (big professional-level violin shop with an online presence) recently looking for a light rosin for the summer months, and Jay Ifshin recommended Colophane 2000 "because you get more for the money."  His opinion seemed to be that they were more or less all the same...  At any rate, I went with his recommendation and it does seem to be a decent rosin. -Steve

Offline thilefan

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #26 on: Jun 21, 2004, 01:03:09 AM »
Ahh, ok. I finally took my cello to the local music shop, and the guy chipped up my rosin with a paper clip for a while. When he was done, it sounded great. I'll have to see if it works good when I try it next hehe. I have some lighter hildershire (or whatever that stuff is) and I used it for my fiddle for a while, and it was great. It didn't seem to work real well on my cello though. I was wondering where I could find a DARK version of that rosin....?

Also, I have a very stupid beginner question...

When you are playing cello, how do you hold the bow in order to keep from cramping your bowing hand? At the current moment, I can only play for 2-3 minute spells, and then I have to rest my hand. Perhaps this is normal for a beginner <??>

I broke one of my strings on my cello already, and was wonder if it would be bad to simply just replace that string....I know that on the mandolin, it sounds terrrrrible if you just replace one string....but is it different on Cello?

Sorry 'bout all the questions hehe...

~Eager Newbie

Offline buttermuffin4

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #27 on: Jun 21, 2004, 01:15:00 AM »
Also, I have a very stupid beginner question...

When you are playing cello, how do you hold the bow in order to keep from cramping your bowing hand? At the current moment, I can only play for 2-3 minute spells, and then I have to rest my hand. Perhaps this is normal for a beginner <??>

I broke one of my strings on my cello already, and was wonder if it would be bad to simply just replace that string....I know that on the mandolin, it sounds terrrrrible if you just replace one string....but is it different on Cello?

Sorry 'bout all the questions hehe...

~Eager Newbie

hold up, when you break one string, you have to replace them all? then why do they sell single strings?

my hand used to cramp with my violin bow, it eventually goes away, but i dunno about the cello


Offline madfiddler

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #28 on: Jun 21, 2004, 01:26:39 AM »
You will experience rubbish as a beginner on the cello as well as the violin. Graham Clark talked about this in the teaching section, but recommended NOT to fight the pain, but have a short rest then start again.

As for changing string, YES you can change strings individually. Perhaps this is different on the mandolin because of the dual tuned strings... Goodness, on a cello you'd need a mortgage if you had to change a full set of strings everytime one broke or needed replacing. Having said that, I would think that it is quite rare for a cello string to break ! ? !
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Offline buttermuffin4

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #29 on: Jun 21, 2004, 01:45:50 AM »
is it wrong to use the screw to scratch up your rosin?

Offline thilefan

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #30 on: Jun 21, 2004, 01:59:19 AM »
Thanks for the info madfiddler! I get a little bit discouraged having to stop every 2 minutes, I sure hope it goes away soon.

Yeah, on the mandolin, the two strings conflict with each other when one is older and the other is brand new. Especially if one of the strings is nickel and the other steel.

I broke my cello string as a result of the peg slipping (making the string limp) and then when I went to re-tune it, it pulled tight on a kink, and snapped  :-\  :'(

One last question about cello strings...does it matter if I don't know what brand my other strings are when I go to replace a string? I have no idea what kind of strings came with my cello, and when I go to replace it, I'll probably just buy the cheapest one I can find....problem <??>

~Robin

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #31 on: Jun 21, 2004, 02:09:35 AM »
I dont think it matters....actually if you had nice strings to begin with and then you go and buy a cheap one, it might sound a little jacked up......since i'm always being told nice strings sound better cheap ones dont so, I guess they might sound different?

Offline Pilgrum

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #32 on: Jun 21, 2004, 04:58:46 AM »
thilefan
there are two different style of bow for cello.  What style are you using.  I believe one is a over hand and the other is under hand.  Also, do you have a teacher or someone that you could ask to watch and see if your doing anything wrong.

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #33 on: Jun 21, 2004, 07:36:41 AM »
I didn't know there were different ways *confused*. I'm not sure which I use. I kind of hold it like a fiddler would hold their bow, if that makes any sense. What is a good way to do it? Is there a way that causes less cramping than the another? I don't have a teacher either, which is so annoying. I can't afford one either, to be honest. I want one real bad though. I hate starting to play an instrument the wrong way. Any suggested teachers in the Seattle/WA area?

~Robin

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #34 on: Jun 21, 2004, 09:02:08 AM »
Grow more nose hair, young man.


You can tell you're getting old when the barber spends more time on your nose and ears than he does on your head.

I haven't had any problems with rosin. I start it off by scratching with a Yale type key and it doesn't make me sneeze.

Offline buttermuffin4

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #35 on: Jun 22, 2004, 05:08:45 AM »
thilefan-

i sometimes play my violin like a cello (only when I'm bored) and i hold the bow the same way i usually hold it but sideways, thumb between the hair and the stick, right next to the frog, and then let your other fingers fall where they want to/where its most comfy
I hope that helped

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #36 on: Jun 22, 2004, 07:15:18 AM »
So, holding it that way doesn't hurt at all, then? Did you initially have wrist pain/cramping when you began fiddling??

I will try it that way and see what happens  ;)

~Rob

Offline Bob L

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #37 on: Jun 22, 2004, 10:04:33 PM »
I keep a small piece of sandpaper handy, and it seems to work better than scratching the rosin with a key or paper clip etc.  It results in a smoother surface to rub the hair against.

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #38 on: Jun 22, 2004, 10:13:44 PM »
thilefan
there are two different style of bow for cello.  What style are you using.  I believe one is a over hand and the other is under hand.  Also, do you have a teacher or someone that you could ask to watch and see if your doing anything wrong.

I thought that only applied to bass? ??? I've never seen an underhand cello bow grip being used by a modern player, though it is standard for gamba. Double bassists have 2 different styles of bow depending on their chosen bow grip, "French" style (overhand) and "German" style (underhand).

 I've only played cello for a couple of months in my life and that was 10 years ago, but I'd say go with the overhand hold, because it is standard. But bow holding is one of the most difficult parts of learning any stringed instrument IMHO, so if you can find a teacher at all, take some lessons - it's easy to fall into bad habits.

Offline buttermuffin4

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Re:Starting a new block of rosin....
« Reply #39 on: Jun 23, 2004, 05:07:04 AM »
So, holding it that way doesn't hurt at all, then? Did you initially have wrist pain/cramping when you began fiddling??

I will try it that way and see what happens  ;)

~Rob

oh yeah my hand cramped, but it didnt cramp for very long, it only hurt like, once or twice when i began playing

 




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