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Author Topic: Metronomes  (Read 5455 times)

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Offline Chuck

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Metronomes
« on: Dec 11, 2003, 01:01:43 AM »
The teacher said it's about time to start using one.  Any suggestions on type/brand will be appreciated.  Also how do you work with one?  

Offline alwyswinn

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #1 on: Dec 11, 2003, 01:35:00 AM »
I use a Quik Time metronome does 40-208bpm and keeps time.   I sure wish I could find it.  It will either click or flash or both.  The msrp is 19.95 but I bet you could find one for less.

I too would like to hear some sound advice as to how to practice with one effectivly.

Offline xania

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #2 on: Dec 11, 2003, 02:35:00 AM »
I use an "Intelli " metro tuner. I've also got one of those old fashioned type pendulum things, but it can go out of kiltre from time to time. The electronic one is much better. My model is an IMT202.

I haven't ever really thought of how to work with one, I just do. The children have terrible trouble playing with a metronome, though.

I find it handy for seeing what speeds pieces should be played at, and for difficult passages. "Counting" would be the least of my problems, though , so I don't really think about it.

Pieces in 6/8, I usually count in two-I can't be bothered counting up to 6. Young children have a bit of a problem with that though.
Pieces in 3/4, I'll often count in 1's, particularly if it is at a brisk pace.

xan

Offline dalebygod

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #3 on: Dec 11, 2003, 03:13:32 AM »
any cheesy casio used keyboard has a drum track in it. I personally don't, and never have used one for fiddle, but use a click track for the rhythm section. After all, if you're playing with a band and the rhythm can't count, you will be pulled off the beat. But the 'up side' of this is you can always blame them.
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Offline Pilgrum

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #4 on: Dec 11, 2003, 04:26:52 AM »
Its hard to play to a beat, until you learn to play with a beat.  A metronome sounds like it's doing the counting for you, not true.  You still need to count and slip those 8th's and 16th's in between the click-click-click of the beat.  Someone will come along and say it, so let me be the first, something to do with practice etc.....

Offline Jack002

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #5 on: Dec 11, 2003, 04:50:02 PM »
Hey, I'm looking at getting one too! Dale, I have a Casio keyboard that has that rhythm stuff on it. Other than waltz, I can't get it to make a simple tick, tick, tick, without getting all Jazzy/bluesy/reggae on me. I can't deal with it for most tunes, so I'm getting a metronome too.

Rob, one like this?

We have these at our shop and they're like 30-40 bucks. (our music stores are really high here)

Xan, like this?

I think I'd seen these. Seems like a real good one.

Offline xania

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #6 on: Dec 11, 2003, 06:15:29 PM »
Yes Jack, that's exactly the one.

I have to admit, I can't fault it.

xan

Offline Mark Cordova

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #7 on: Dec 11, 2003, 09:57:43 PM »
I tried an electronic metronome for a while but it didn't have enough volume and the assortment of tones could not climb above the volume of a fiddle under my chin. The old fashioned swinging one is great for me. It's not that loud but it is different from any sound the violin can make.  

Offline Bob

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #8 on: Dec 11, 2003, 10:03:53 PM »
I tried an electronic metronome for a while but it didn't have enough volume and the assortment of tones could not climb above the volume of a fiddle under my chin. The old fashioned swinging one is great for me. It's not that loud but it is different from any sound the violin can make.  

Nor myself. I've tried various electronic ones and they make too little noise - and the normal single LED is difficult to spot unless its right in front. So I use a big old fashioned one at home and a Wittner small mechanical one to put in the case.

I also have a 19" rack mount affair which has midi in/outs and has a bevy of large, bright LEDs arranged in an arc - lights up the room almost! Its the only electronic one I like - used to cost around 250 but no longer made.

One alternative is to download a freeware or shareware metronome for the PC and use that!

Offline vic

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #9 on: Dec 12, 2003, 02:07:54 AM »
One alternative is to download a freeware or shareware metronome for the PC and use that!

Or download freeware PC sequencers which have metronomes.

vic

Offline madfiddler

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #10 on: Dec 12, 2003, 02:13:54 AM »
That's a very good point Vic.

All sequencers will be able to play a metronome sound tied in with the bpm of a track. Some even allow you to change the time-line, so you could program in a speed up or slow down.

You should also have the choice of the metronome sound coming from the built in speaker of the computer, as a series of tuned beeps, or, have the click as MIDI notes, where you can define the notes played for beat 1, and beats 2,3 and 4. Great if you have a sound module with drum sounds.
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Offline vic

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #11 on: Dec 12, 2003, 08:53:32 AM »
That's a very good point Vic.

All sequencers will be able to play a metronome sound tied in with the bpm of a track. Some even allow you to change the time-line, so you could program in a speed up or slow down.

You should also have the choice of the metronome sound coming from the built in speaker of the computer, as a series of tuned beeps, or, have the click as MIDI notes, where you can define the notes played for beat 1, and beats 2,3 and 4. Great if you have a sound module with drum sounds.

Metronomes of PC sequencers have more features like what you mentioned. Hardware sequencers are a bit restrictive.

I like the metronome of Sonar more than on my Yamaha RM1x or RS7000 sequencer.  

BTW, you can also use softsynth (DXi/VST plugins) for drum sounds.


vic

Offline Jack002

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #12 on: Dec 12, 2003, 02:33:30 PM »
hey, I've been thinking of making a metronome. Anyone here familiar with the 555 timer? Its a neat lil chip.

(Using a computer as a metronome seems like using a tank to kill a flea to me.) ;)
This is really a pretty simple task. I guess you need a 9 volt battery, and a few parts.

Jack

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #13 on: Dec 12, 2003, 07:39:57 PM »
yup, it looks like a simple circuit design. the 555-timer is a versatile chip. i've used it before as an oscillator for a complex sound generator.  

the only thing is, you don't have a bpm counter. maybe you can label the potentiometer positions.

vic
« Last Edit: Dec 12, 2003, 08:28:20 PM by vic »

Offline Chuck

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #14 on: Dec 12, 2003, 10:39:05 PM »
Jack, are you suggesting it's time to find the old circuit boards and soldering iron?  I'm sure they are around here somewhere.

I'm about narrowed the choices down to a Sabine Zipbeat 6000 or the Korg MA-30.

I'm still wondering how to use it?  I guess the teacher will tell me.

Offline Mark Cordova

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #15 on: Dec 12, 2003, 11:17:10 PM »
Hey chuck, I took a look at the Korg MA30 on a website. IT has identical functions to the korg I used and could also be used as tuner only by sounding the notes to you while you matched them up. As a metronome for violin it was a failure because the tones it created were easily masked by the violin. I never tried to just watch the LED arm for tempo. I would recommend against it.

Mark

Offline imtiaz1

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #16 on: Dec 12, 2003, 11:27:27 PM »
hey, I've been thinking of making a metronome. Anyone here familiar with the 555 timer? Its a neat lil chip.

(Using a computer as a metronome seems like using a tank to kill a flea to me.) ;)
This is really a pretty simple task. I guess you need a 9 volt battery, and a few parts.

Jack

You know, I just love this site. We go from does anyone use a metronome through to circuit diagrams. Just waiting for the discussion on the molecular physics of it all and then to round it off, the meaning of life.

Cheered me up no end - thanks!
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Offline alwyswinn

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #17 on: Dec 13, 2003, 01:59:39 AM »
We actually have discussed both those things but as to where it could be a chore to find.

As far as metronomes the quick time I use has a very nasty annoying click that seems to be quite loud.  I normally practice with a mute on this helps to hear it considerably even a small wire mute should be enough to cut the violin down to were you can hear it but I imagine it is audible above an unmuted violin.

Offline madfiddler

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #18 on: Dec 13, 2003, 02:11:10 AM »
Hehe, definately agree with imtiaz1 here. Great. There surely must be a simple way to display the BPM. I'm sure Alan can think of something cheap. The only idea I can think of, are the BPM detection devices that DJ's use.

Plug them inline with their mixing desks, and they sense the envelopes of drum loops, and calculate the tempo from that. A little too expensive for this though!
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Offline Chuck

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #19 on: Dec 13, 2003, 02:26:58 AM »
Thanks Mark, I'll forget about the Korg.  The Sabine is supposed to have a wooden clacking sound, not beeps.  Seiko has what looks like some nice stuff but the price is a little steep.  Maybe I should just get one of the old wind up kind, but I've heard they loose time as they wind down.  

Imtiaz - For the meaning of life: http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=%22meaning+of+life%22  :silly1:

Offline madfiddler

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #20 on: Dec 13, 2003, 02:36:45 AM »
I've got a wind up one myself. Haven't used it for ages. Will see if it does slow down. The benefit of my one, is it has a bell, which you can set to play on the first beat of the bar.
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Offline Chuck

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #21 on: Dec 13, 2003, 03:32:24 AM »
New Wittner windups with bell aren't exactly cheap.  

Robb - for metronome techniques/proper usage see http://www.franzmfg.com/mt.htm  some of it might be a bit dated and a lot of it is over my head, at least for right now.

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #22 on: Dec 13, 2003, 05:15:01 AM »
thanx Chuck thats some great info.  I look forward to getting into just scanned and printed for now.  It looks real helpful

Offline Jack002

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #23 on: Dec 15, 2003, 04:21:15 PM »
FYI, I'd think that any decent wind up metronome is going to beat the same rate all the way till the spring is unwound. Its got parts in it that work just like a clock does. The weight of the pendulum is what regulates the speed on it. Its constant as long as the weight is not moved.

As for a BPM counter on the 555 curcuit? Get a 250K ten turn pot with a digital readout. (It looks a little like a car odometer) calibrate it to show BPM. (We had these things in research on test equipment a lot)

Imtiaz1, glad that post made your day!! ;) (see, Mark, these arent all junk posts!!!)

Jack

Offline Steve_W

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Re:Metronomes
« Reply #24 on: Dec 17, 2003, 09:00:56 PM »
FYI, I'd think that any decent wind up metronome is going to beat the same rate all the way till the spring is unwound. Its got parts in it that work just like a clock does. The weight of the pendulum is what regulates the speed on it. Its constant as long as the weight is not moved.

That's right; that's the whole purpose of the pendulum!  The amplitude can change but not the frequency (although having said that, I find my Wittner Mini-Taktell does get a touch erratic on the last few beats before it winds down).  I've used the Mini-Taktell for a number of years; it's quite reliable and fits easily into my case; it's reasonably loud although I recently got a new, much louder, fiddle that can drown it out when playing at full volume.  A few weeks ago I got a Seiko SQ-50 digitial metronome (compact size with a dial, runs off a 9v transistor battery, around $30US) mainly for the silent LED operation.  I frequently play solo for dance classes and now use it in silent mode to set my initial tempo, and occasionally keep it running on my music stand while I'm doing tunes that I'm a little iffy with and might have a tendency to slow down or speed.  It's small enough that it can perch on the stand in a location where I can see the flashing LED in my peripheral vision.  The Seiko isn't super-loud either but does have 2 different click sounds plus 440A and a headphone jack.  It also seems pretty sturdy; it survived 2 plunges from my stand to the floor at a gig last weekend when I moved the stand forgetting it was there (twice!  D'oh!)! -Steve

 




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