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Author Topic: Official Rosin Topic  (Read 7727 times)

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Offline frodopogo

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #25 on: Apr 26, 2007, 09:40:58 PM »
About a month and a half ago, I bought a cake of Kaplan Artcraft Dark.
Not too expensive, 8 or 9 bucks, I think in the local store.
Very grippy.  I like it.  Works best on my lighter bow
and gives it more volume.

I bought it because one of the violin teachers at the shop
said she feels it gives the performance of the high priced rosins
without the high price.
Nice flannel backing <and> a flannel bag!

On the heavier bow, I still prefer Hill Dark.

I suppose that foam stuff on the Hill would help protect
it against shattering if it fell out of the case.
<IF> you had wrapped it up securely, that is.
 Hill is <very> brittle stuff! Always getting chipped somehow.

Michael

Offline beeswing

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #26 on: Apr 26, 2007, 09:57:08 PM »
Quote from: frodopogo
...I suppose that foam stuff on the Hill would help protect it against shattering if it fell out of the case.

Maybe if it fell onto a pillow...  :P I've seen a block of Hill dark turn to glassy chunks from being dropped two or three feet onto a carpet, closed up in the foam "flannel" wrapper. Not mine-- it was being given to a kid brand-new, and the presenter was the one what dropped it.  :'( Had to get another one to make up for it.

Anybody use Pirastro Schwartz?

_Bill
I want to be a musician when I grow up.
Sorry, son, you can't do both.

Offline frodopogo

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #27 on: Apr 26, 2007, 11:08:37 PM »
Maybe if it fell onto a pillow...  :P
LOL!
Quote
I've seen a block of Hill dark turn to glassy chunks from being dropped two or three feet onto a carpet, closed up in the foam "flannel" wrapper. Not mine-- it was being given to a kid brand-new, and the presenter was the one what dropped it.  :'( Had to get another one to make up for it.
Wow... I said it was <very> brittle stuff, but that's even more brittle
than I thought!


Anybody use Pirastro Schwartz?

Can't help you there, sorry!

Michael

Offline sreizes

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #28 on: Apr 26, 2007, 11:48:12 PM »
I've got Salchow, but not the dark, the "regular".  I like it.  It generally does well in the climate here and is lasting well.  I also have an Evah/Olive cake, it's ok, but I think the weather here is too warm for it, tends to a "grunchyness" sometimes, got to be careful.  I also have an ancient cake of Hill Dark, the sponge disintegrated some time in the 1980s, and I wrapped it in a small square of old shirt, it has since stuck itself to the cloth.  It's old and therefore oxidized, works ok, kind of dusty though.
;D

Offline Krugwaffle

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2007, 06:10:38 PM »
Hill is brittle.  Ever once in a while, I'll accidentally bump the cake against the ferrule or the tip of the bow and it will invariably knock a chip out of the edge.  No biggie.  It still works.

I've noticed two stages to the rosining process.  I've had to rosin several brand new bows or replaced bow hair now and I've found that there are two levels of rosin.

First there's the dusting stage.  This is the white flaky fine dust that strips off of the cake and attaches itself to the bow by static charge or just by being tacky.  Get enough on the hair to cover it and you have a real scratchy, sometimes weak sound that can be sluggish to attack and grip the strings.  The flakes themselves can be knocked off to float around and land on your fiddle or get sniffed up your nose.

The next level of rosin is what I call "the smear state."  This is rosin that was rubbed off of a cake and attached to the hair and at some point received enough pressure and friction to melt it on to the hair.  It's no longer a flake but a thin coating covering a microscopic portion of one of the hairs on the bow.  This coating takes forever to build up on new hair and the bow never seems to work well until it does. 

Once you've got a good "smear" coating on the hair, you can use compressed air to blow off all the loose dust and play without the sneezing powder problem.  The smear coat will eventually wear off so it's a good idea to keep some powder on so it will replenish itself as you play.

I'm trying to figure out some way to convert the dust to smear quicker as it seems to take me about four months to play in a real good smooth smear coat.  Maybe rub the hair real fast back and forth over a heated polished glass edge or something.  I even thought about applying the rosin in a liquid form but that would make all the hairs stick together.  Not good.

So when it comes to rosining fresh hair, it's not just a matter of getting enough rosin on by rubbing a cake.  The bow needs to be played in to convert the rough powder to smooth smeared on rosin coating. 

Just my own observations. 

Offline frodopogo

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2007, 07:20:39 PM »
Krugwaffle,
Would this work, perhap?

Loosen frog,
powder hair with rosin powder,
then apply medium heat from blow dryer,
keeping heat away from stick?

(you could hold the bow horizontally,
and then let the frog pull the hair down at
a right angle.)

I think your observations are correct-
they also correspond to the way rosin dust
behaves on the top of the fiddle.

In <that> case, the rosin eventually glues itself
to the top, just by being left in contact with it,
and faster in warm weather.
So maybe if you rosined the bow, and didn't play it,
but stored it at 95 degrees Fahrenheit for a week?

(Note: the above ideas are untested suggestions,
use at your own risk!)

Michael

Offline Don Stackhouse

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Re: Official Rosin Topic
« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2007, 01:07:17 PM »
...I've noticed two stages to the rosining process....The next level of rosin is what I call "the smear state."  This is rosin that was rubbed off of a cake and attached to the hair and at some point received enough pressure and friction to melt it on to the hair.  It's no longer a flake but a thin coating covering a microscopic portion of one of the hairs on the bow.  This coating takes forever to build up on new hair and the bow never seems to work well until it does....I'm trying to figure out some way to convert the dust to smear quicker as it seems to take me about four months to play in a real good smooth smear coat....

Not too difficult.

First, clean the hair with rubbing alcohol (isopropyl, NOT ethanol!). Use a pad of folded-up tissue (plain tissue, not the kind with facial cream in it), liberally dampened (but not dripping, even when squeezed a little) then fold it around the hair and wipe the hair from one end to the other. Refold pad to expose a clean surface and repeat. Keep doing this till the pad comes up clean.

Avoid getting alcohol on the stick, but if you do, don't panic, just let it evaporate. Ethanol ("denatured" alcohol) will attack varnish, but rubbing alcohol is much better behaved in this respect.

At this point, the hair will still be damp with alcohol. Let it dry a little, but start rosining it while the hair is still a bit damp. The residual alcohol will dissolve the rosin, giving the cake a glassy surface. The melted rosin will coat the hair. If you timed it just right, the coating on the hairs will be microscopic. Rub the rosin cake around in small circles as you rub it along the hair, to work the dissolved rosin up between the hairs and deep into the bundle.

The amount of alcohol in the hair is a little bit critical. Too wet, and the coating will be thicker, which will turn into a thick, pasty, gummy coating that glues the hairs to each other, then breaks up and flakes off in little tubular shards when you let it dry and then rap the tip of the bow on the heel of your palm. If it's acting too wet, just stop for a minute and let the excess alcohol evaporate. If you make too much of a mess, clean the hair again and start over. Not a big deal.

As you rub the rosin on the hair, the remaining alcohol will evaporate, and eventually (only a minute or less) the rosin cake will start to take on a frosty appearance again, and you will feel vibration and friction as you rub it against the hair, just like applying rosin to well broken-in bow hair. Rap the back of the tip on the heel of your palm occasionally to help distribute the rosin, then play it fairly hard for a bit to stabilize everything. Some excess rosin will come off on the strings and the top of the fiddle. Clean that off with a dry piece of pantyhose.

At this point your bow hair should be all set to go!
« Last Edit: May 04, 2007, 07:05:06 PM by Don Stackhouse »

 




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