Topic: let's talk double stops

[dalebygod]

I did notice while in Buxton that most [please correct me if i'm wrong] irish fiddlers and english players don't make use of a lot of double stops. Am I correct? As much as 'we'  americans
do?
I mean no disrespect to irish style, as i love all the players there, and their styles, but it doesn't appear that that style requires alot of double stops which some fiddlers here do.

[Mark Cordova]

Hardly any double stops at all in the Irish Tradition. They truly have enough going on with their music to be able to dispense with them. I play more double stops than I should according to the traditionalists. That's OK by me. I'll play them when I'm in the lead and I'll back off of them when I'm in a session.

[B natural]

Yes Dale, we Scots use double stops a bit - mostly in slow airs and slow strathspeys. Also use double stops as ornamentation in strathspeys and marches. So I suppose we're a bit like you guys!

Rob.

[B natural]

They truly have enough going on with their music to be able to dispense with them.

Mark, is that really true? There's a fair bit going on in Scottish stuff as well but the double stops help to fill out the tunes and give them breadth so to speak.

Doesn't Sean McGuire use double stops? Perhaps some Irish purists don't like to think of him as being traditional!

Rob.

[lzaikoski]

I can't think of any Irish tunes, off the top of my head, that are "supposed" to have double stops ... but sometimes you can drone on a lower (or higher) string to simulate pipes as an ornament.  I know I've heard simon play a tune that way, and it sounded good.

Irish music is usually meant for a bunch of melody instruments to play together.  A lot of people don't even like the introduction of guitars and bouzukis (sp?) and other "chord" instruments.  Even accordion plays typically stick to the melody and throw in chords sparingly.

I guess it stems from the prevalence of pipes, whistles, and flutes in Irish ... can't play any chords on any of them (except for the regulators on Uillean pipes, but that's a little different).

[Mark Cordova]

I suppose that Statement was my opinion Bnat. It looks like Izaik is much closer to the mark.

[kesh]

Double stops happen in Irish music but, as said above, they aren't written into the tune, just added in sparingly as a drone or bit of harmony.  The whole effect is much more subtle than double stopping in American tunes ( No surprise there then ).

[dalebygod]

Do irish players play many waltzes? Slow waltzes like we ameicans do? We do play with alot of double stops.

[kesh]

Irish players tend to go for mazurkas if they want 3/4 time.

Plenty of English & Scottish waltzes though, again not much double stopping.

[Jackson]

A popular waltz at the Irish sessions here in Seattle is Mrs. Kinneys.

[peakfiddler]

Double stops are less used on this side of the pond in folk fiddle melodies. Although, in the right circumstances they are good to play and add a lot to a tune. In my opinion, anyone wishing to extend their style should try adding a few tunes with double stop chords into their repertoire.

Irish fiddle tunes are highly suited to expressive ornamentation and usually don't require anything other than single notes with slurs, trills, hammer ons and offs etc.

English tunes can sometimes benefit from the odd double stop, but not many.

The jazz and classical players are far more frequent users of two strings I guess.

Ragtime, bluegrass, texas swing etc. just seem to need double stops and chords and are really suited to counterpoint melody.

Anyone know what the Norwegian, Swedish, Hardanger, Shetland, Faeroe Island  fiddle players do ?

[Leon Grizzard]

Dale, I noticed the absence of Waltzes in Irish music also.  I seem to remember that in O'Neill's Music of Ireland, the 3/4 tunes were in the Songs and Airs section- certainly no section of Waltzes like an American tune book might have.  The Waltz began to get popular in the early 1800's.  I guess that even if the waltz became popular in Ireland at some point, it is plainly not Irish traditional and so you don't see it in Irish tune books or being played as traditional Irish music.

[Leon Grizzard]

The Wind That Shakes the Barley is an Irish tune (right?) that is played by American old time players.  Do you Irish cats drone the D string on the first part, or play double stops on the the F# and G notes at the beginning of the second part?  

[Mnfele]

Hardanger fiddle is almost all double stops, drone, and sympathetic strings. Amazing the number of notes that can be played simultaneously. In fact it is difficult, due to the construction of the instrument, to play only one string at a time.

[dalebygod]

The Wind That Shakes the Barley is an Irish tune (right?) that is played by American old time players.  Do you Irish cats drone the D string on the first part, or play double stops on the the F# and G notes at the beginning of the second part?  

I don't know if i know that tune leon. Sure would like to hear it tho

[fidla]

oh god

no double stops in Irish music

[Martin]

I use double stops in Irish and English tunes, maybe more than is "traditional", but I'm not going to restrict my playing to try to fit a particular label or style. I use double stops like any other ornament, use it at times, drop it at times.

My Irish Fiddle tutor book written by Pete Cooper, includes some double stopping in most tune types, usually just one or two notes in the whole tune. Then again, Pete isn't actually Irish.

[simon]

Some Irish fiddlers use double stops a lot - Sean Maguire has been mentioned, Sean Keane is another one. Drones, octaves, and unisons are very common, but you wouldn't generally hear someone playing a run in thirds, which seems to happen a lot in American styles.

When people talk about Irish traditional music, they often mean the session scene that goes on in bars in the cities, I suppose because that's where the majority of the music happens. The faster dance tunes are more popular and I don't think I've ever heard a waltz played in a bar in Belfast. Go out in the country though, and you might hear waltzes, and slow airs played as waltzes, but you still won't get the kind of harmonising that happens in American old time.

[lzaikoski]

The Wind That Shakes the Barley is an Irish tune (right?) that is played by American old time players.  Do you Irish cats drone the D string on the first part, or play double stops on the the F# and G notes at the beginning of the second part?  

I know I don't, nor do any of the people I've played with in sessions.

Do American old time players play it fast, or slow?  We usually play it as a fast reel.

[mickeysmom]

My Irish father played several slow airs on his accordion.....but I don't remember them being "waltzes" per se.  More like ballads in that there were stories in the lyrics.  Seems like people sang along more than doing any dancing... unless they'd been into their cups some...then all bets were off.

A few I remember were:
"The Wild Colonial Boy"
"Isle of Innisfree"
"Down by the Glenside"
"Come Back to Erin, Mavourneen"
"Rose of Tralee"
"Teddy O'Neill"

Have a good one!

[Leon Grizzard]

Our playing is generally a little slower than the Irish music I have heard, which is not exhausitve.  (I have Michael Coleman, Hugh Gillespie, Peoples and Brady, and some compilations including the Green Linnet Playing with Fire.)   Stacy Phillips, in Contest Fiddling, generally says he has heard tempos for hoedowns at 112 to 120 MM.  I think Wind that Shakes the Barley has a very nice melody, and sounds good at a stately pace.

[simon]

The Wind That Shakes the Barley is an Irish tune (right?) that is played by American old time players.  Do you Irish cats drone the D string on the first part, or play double stops on the the F# and G notes at the beginning of the second part?  

Sometimes, not all the time. Varying it is the main thing in Irish music. I'd often drone the D at the start of the first part, and/or the A for the first couple of bars in the second part.

[dalebygod]

Irish players tend to go for mazurkas if they want 3/4 time.

Plenty of English & Scottish waltzes though, again not much double stopping.

Sorry Kesh, i hate to sound stupid again, but what is a mazurkas?

[Mark Cordova]

Heya Dale - I'll play the wind that shakes the barley for you as well as a few mazurkas at FHIII. We'll let someone else describe what the Mazurkas are, I don't know how to classify them other than just to say Mazurkas.

I have noticed many more aires in Irish music than waltzes. There was a tune composer named O'Carolan that wrote many 6/8 and 3/4 pieces. Many folk tend to use those as waltzes. I don't much care for his stuff so my waltzes are limited.

I'm just repeating what others have said but I hit other traditions for good waltzes, Scandinavian, Scottish and even french. I think Jackson Mentioned Mr's Kenny's. That's an Irish Waltz I believe - Anyone disagree?

I have found some Irish Jigs that I play as waltzes upon occasion. I even recorded The banks of Turf as a waltz. Keep those questions a coming.

[Graham Clark]

I don't do a lot of double stops, just  the odd passage in two parts, and chunks of octave work when I feel like it.

I used to do more when I was in the salsa band

gc