Topic: Violin Pickups in the '70's (Read 2655 times)

pablomago · « **on:** November 14, 2006, 07:09:02 PM »

When did people start making pickups for violins? On a tape I have, David Swarbrick talks about using a telephone microphone held on with elastic bands in his early days with Fairport Convention. Barcus Berry came along in the '70's. Where there other people makling violin pickups around that time? Were other kinds of pickups and microphones being adapted for stage use? What do you remember or what did you use?

Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum · « **on:** November 14, 2006, 07:09:02 PM »

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chili · « **Reply #1 on:** November 15, 2006, 03:03:45 AM »

So, back in the day...I started out in the old days 1968 with a pickup called a "contact mic" made by Kent. It mounted from a bar from the tail piece and rested against the violins top. It was most likey to feed back at any fairly high volume. We played Moody Blues songs in our garage as well as many an allnight jam session under the influence. I then found out that the major players of this time, David Laflamme, Jerry Goodman, Jean-Luc Ponty, Sugarcane Harris, Papa John Creach and of course Mr. Dave Swarbrick were using Barcus Berry violins to be electric. I bought a Barcus Berry imbedded bridge pickup and started to try to play fusion music ala Mahavishnu Orchestra which is still some of the most incredible music I have heard. Feedback became a minor problem at most. I remember an e-violin called the Vitar came out during the mid seventies which was totally unique but too expensive. I stopped playing in the mid seventies. Woke up at the turn of the century with many e- violin companies with elaborate effects and all. You know what, I still use that Barcus Berry pickup and it works better than all my other many and various pickups (piezo and magnetic). I just bought a new one for $60 which is both identical to my original and a heck of a lot cheaper. It is disappointing to me that electric violin pickup technology hasn't really progressed in all these years. Still looking forward to the next great thing,

Chili

Vitarman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 15, 2006, 11:15:49 AM »

I have recently resurrected my 1978 Barcus Berry pick up which is attached to the bridge with a soft putty - it does not sound too bad although i have not really tested it in a band situation. I am playing thru a BB model 1330 preamp but I was wondering if the Behringer AD 121 would give a better sound.

I bought a VITAR second hand in the late seventies and have also started playing this again after a long hiatus. I have had a few problems mainly with the connections in the preamp power supply and also hum issues. I think I paid ~$350 AUD for the Vitar and believe they were selling for $1000 new. I think there would be very few here in OZ. Any idea what they sold for in US new?

I have only ever seen one other in Melbourne played by a brilliant player, Richard Lee, in a band called Sidewinder in the late 70's. He was playing thru a 100watt Fender twin! They were a great pub band but unfortunately never released an album. Richard was a classical violinist turned rock virtuoso- I often wondered what happened to him.

twtunes · « **Reply #3 on:** November 15, 2006, 06:01:44 PM »

Similar to the Kent contact mike was one by DeArmond. I improved that one by replacing the "diaphragm", which was a metal plate supported at its edges, with a round piece of soup can lid, sandwiched in foam rubber. Big improvement and no nasty mid-high resonances. Still lots of feedback, though. The Barcus-Berry was considered a huge improvement by everyone--I first heard one on a Fairport record.

swyatt · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:05:21 AM »

Slightly off topic (as it was way before the 70's), but the first documented fully electrified violin was made during the 1930's by George Beauchamp, although I did read somewhere that an inventor created an electric pickup for acoustic violins way back in the 20's

There is a writeup about Beauchamp at http://www.digitalviolin.com/Beauchamp.html

Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum · « **Reply #4 on:** December 11, 2006, 04:05:21 AM »

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soundboot · « **Reply #5 on:** December 15, 2006, 04:25:43 AM »

I had an awful Schaller pickup in the 70's (am I really that old?). It was a black plastic thing and worked by a metal strip over two magnetic pickups inside the bridge but you could take the top of the bridge off. I can't remember too much of the sound but I don't think it was all that great.

BAH · « **Reply #6 on:** December 16, 2006, 09:12:15 AM »

thanks for the nod swyatt...

The first documented fully electrified violins were probably made by Makhonine or Pfeil in or around 1930... Beauchamp actually came a bit later but seemed to corner the "tag" of being "first"...

Pick ups did come earlier - actually as early as 1913 there are patents for attachable electric microphones ... My info on these devices has been undergoing a severe revision for some time now, maybe someday soon I'll post the reults... but for the record John Comer and Walter Derriman both were granted patents, these are possibly the earliest recognisable "Pickups"

musiklab · « **Reply #7 on:** December 19, 2006, 09:50:16 AM »

Hi both Swyat and BAH,
Pleased that you do this , personally I think there must be electric violins dating back as early as electrical amplification was available.

please post those patent no´s , I´m always interested in the history while pushing the limits forward.
best, Michael.

swyatt · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2006, 04:08:42 AM »

Musiklab - have a look at http://www.digitalviolin.com/Patents.html - more patent numbers than you'll know what to do with them!

Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2006, 04:08:42 AM »

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musiklab · « **Reply #9 on:** December 30, 2006, 12:13:50 PM »

that IS impressive.
someone spent a long time looking at that.
Thanks.

I started working on my StringAmp pickup in the 70´s, and had the first one working in 74. Oh man, that´s 32 years now.
What the heck , I´ll take a few more.
Just finished a new upgraded preamp series, I think they are amazing, and I´m pretty pleased with them.
So now I hope for a grand new 2007, 33rd year of doing the StringAmp.
Happy new year to all fiddleforum friends.
Best , Michael.

dbzog · « **Reply #10 on:** January 14, 2007, 02:54:57 PM »

I used a DeArmande ((?) back in the late 60s and early 70s... rubberbanded to the violin top. Absolutely horrible by today's standards. I still occasionally use a 70s vintage Barcus Berry bridge contact pickup. Coupled with my 70s BB studio peamp, it gives me a great acoustic sound. I keep the gain low to eliminate harshness. BTW, instead of the putty method, I cut to fit a small piece of two-side carpet tape. It's easy to use and doesn't leave 'gunk' marks on the bridge. Hey, I believe this may be my second post evar!!

BAH · « **Reply #11 on:** January 25, 2007, 07:27:17 PM »

For the record:
1927 - Giant-Tone Radio Violin was a cheapo $1 "small carbon button" mounted in sound-hold of violin connected to "battery and modulation transformer", "two-tube amplifier" and (foldable) "loud-speaker unit". The set up was capable of "extreme", "enormous" and "phenomenal" amplification", "yet its characteristic timbre" was "preserved"...

coo!

Vitarman? TELL ME MORE, PLEASE!!!!!!!! I missed out on one of those recently-ish... what's it like?!

Vitarman · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2007, 09:02:02 AM »

Hi BAH,

To be honest, I have only recently started playing violin after a break of 25 years and I'm currently learning Irish fiddle. The Vitar sounded suberb when played by the professional jazz violinist who sold it to me and also by Richard Lee (see above ) who played original rock and blues thru a Fender twin reverb (100W, I think). Richard also played a Barcus Berry and the Vitar definitely had more grunt - more of a rock violin. I personally find it quite difficult to play because of the weight and the 5 strings and I'm not really an accomplished player anyway. I recently took it to a Violin shop to buy a fibreglass case and the owner thought it was a homemade violin because it did not have the quality of finish that new electric violins have. So, to be honest, I can't really answer your question as I do not have any experience with modern electric violins but it definitely has a vibe and in the right hands it would have a killer sound! I'll have to post photos as soon as I work out how to do it.

Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum · « **Reply #12 on:** January 29, 2007, 09:02:02 AM »

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madmat · « **Reply #13 on:** February 02, 2007, 03:22:12 AM »

Quote from: musiklab on December 30, 2006, 12:13:50 PM

that IS impressive.
someone spent a long time looking at that.

Probably not?

http://www.google.com/patents
Putting "electric violin" in as a search string generates 37 hits 'in quotes', 531 without...

BAH · « **Reply #14 on:** February 03, 2007, 11:02:10 PM »

"But actually reading them takes a wee-while longer!"
(said the someone who compiled the list)

BAH · « **Reply #15 on:** February 04, 2007, 10:53:54 AM »

Vitarman - that's interesting thanks - you could always just post me an email direct with pics attached... I'm curious to see whether it's the same as the only other one I've seen... Does yours have the faders on board??
Now to check out Richard Lee, thanks again!

musiklab · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2007, 11:01:16 AM »

Quote from: BAH on February 03, 2007, 11:02:10 PM

"But actually reading them takes a wee-while longer!"
(said the someone who compiled the list)

that´s what I thought - said someone who once spent a lot of time reading patents. good job.

best, Michael.

Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum · « **Reply #16 on:** February 04, 2007, 11:01:16 AM »

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Nick2 · « **Reply #17 on:** February 21, 2007, 01:29:58 PM »

In the mid 70's my first "proper" pickup was a deArmond magnetic contact mike which I ended up setting so it was right between the bridge and the tailpiece.

I recently saw a video on U-Tube of Fairport Convention in the early 70's in which Dave Swarbrick had two of these bugs clipped on his fiddle, one each side of the tailpiece, presumably an early attempt at a chorus effect?

musiklab · « **Reply #18 on:** February 21, 2007, 03:42:07 PM »

Ahh, the DeArmond...
now there was a terrible thing. That one´s responsible for the awful sound of many Stuff Smith recordings hung out to dry for eternity.
I modified the living daylights out of mine, to finally give it up.
best thing is, it got me started, in another direction though..

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Author Topic: Violin Pickups in the '70's (Read 2655 times)

Fiddle and Alternative Strings Forum

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